Interviewing Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor about her new memoir on Monday's NBC Today, co-host Savannah Guthrie worried that political division was undermining the high court: "Do
you think that it's bad for the credibility of the Court as an
institution if people have the perception that it is splitting along
partisan or ideological lines?"
Sotomayor countered: "Yes. If I believed that that was the reason for
the split, which I don't. The fact that there's a circuit split makes it
clear that there are different ways of looking at the situation and
that the answer is not a slam dunk." In response, Guthrie argued that "so-called liberals" take one side of a case, while the "conservative ideological bloc" takes the other.
Sotomayor
– a committed liberal, not a "so-called" one – replied: "It doesn't
fracture along the ideological lines. It fractures possibly more often
on your basic interpretive approach."
Guthrie then turned to the subject of Affirmative Action and questioned
whether Sotomayor could be objective on the topic: "How can you judge a
case about Affirmative Action impartially when you, yourself, have
acknowledged really benefitting from some of those policies?" Sotomayor
asserted: "The initial plans that I was a beneficiary of were very
different....When I call myself an 'Affirmative Action baby,' I'm
talking about the essence of what Affirmative Action was when it
started."
Guthrie followed up by wondering: "Is there still a need for it today?"
Sotomayor proclaimed: "There's still a need for people to be sensitive
to the fact that they feel more comfortable with people who look like
them. And that you have to be conscious about the way in which the
structures you put into place will limit the opportunities for others."
Turning to the Court's role in deciding controversial issues, Guthrie
voiced more concern: "Do you think it's good for the democratic process
for the Court to be deciding these big social issues of the day?"
Sotomayor declared: "The Court announces and the dialogue begins."
Wrapping up the exchange, Guthrie asked: "Do you look forward to those
big consequential cases?" Sotomayor declared: "I don't think you can say
anyone looks forward to controversy."
Guthrie teased part two of the interview to be aired on Tuesday's Today.
Here is a full transcript Guthrie's January 14 interview with Sotomayor:
7:16AM ET
SAVANNAH
GUTHRIE: A rare interview with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
She made history, of course, in 2009, when she became the first Hispanic
and third woman to join the high court. Well, now she's releasing her
memoir entitled My Beloved World. As a sitting Supreme Court justice,
there is, of course, very little she can say about the issues coming
before the Court. But when we caught up with her, we tried. We did ask
about some recent divisions in the Court over some of its toughest
cases. Do you think that it's bad for the credibility of the Court as an
institution if people have the perception that it is splitting along
partisan or ideological lines?
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: "My Beloved World"; Savannah One-on-One With Justice Sotomayor]
SONIA SOTOMAYOR: Yes. If I believed that that was the reason for the
split, which I don't. The fact that there's a circuit split makes it
clear that there are different ways of looking at the situation and that
the answer is not a slam dunk.
GUTHRIE: But it is true that often the so-called liberals on the Court
side with one another and there's a conservative ideological bloc and
the Court sometimes fractures down those lines.
SOTOMAYOR: It doesn't fracture along the ideological lines. It
fractures possibly more often on your basic interpretive approach.
GUTHRIE: How can you judge a case about Affirmative Action impartially
when you, yourself, have acknowledged really benefitting from some of
those policies?
SOTOMAYOR: The initial plans that I was a beneficiary of were very
different. They said to schools and to employers, "You can't limit your
hiring from pools that are segregated." The plans that the courts were
dealing with over time were plans that had fixed quotas, plans that
specified that certain numbers of minorities had to be taken in to
schools. When I call myself an "Affirmative Action baby," I'm talking
about the essence of what Affirmative Action was when it started.
GUTHRIE: Is there still a need for it today?
SOTOMAYOR: There's still a need for people to be sensitive to the fact
that they feel more comfortable with people who look like them. And that
you have to be conscious about the way in which the structures you put
into place will limit the opportunities for others.
GUTHRIE: Do you think it's good for the democratic process for the Court to be deciding these big social issues of the day?
SOTOMAYOR: I don't think of us, the democratic process, as being a
static one where the Court announces and that ends the dialogue. The
Court announces and the dialogue begins, and the approach, in some
instances, has to be changed. But the society manages to do it.
GUTHRIE: Do you look forward to those big consequential cases?
SOTOMAYOR: Oh, my God. Look forward to them? I don't think you can say
anyone looks forward to controversy. I think that the day a justice
forgets that each decision comes at a cost to someone, then I think you
start losing your humanity.
GUTHRIE: Well, Sotomayor's memoir is very personal, very candid. And we
talked to her about her life, what she's learned over the years. And
that's coming up tomorrow on Today.
MATT LAUER: That's going to be fascinating.
GUTHRIE: A good conversation.