Gibson: 'Why Not' Put in U.S. Prisons 'the Guys from Guantanamo?' --5/21/2009

1. Gibson: 'Why Not' Put in U.S. Prisons 'the Guys from Guantanamo?'
ABC, CBS and NBC all led Wednesday night with the Senate's overwhelming 90 to 6 bi-partisan vote to withhold funding for the closing of Guantanamo and block any detainees from being moved to the U.S., but ABC anchor Charles Gibson was uniquely flummoxed: "What's the problem here?...We have terrorists in U.S. prisons, so why not the guys from Guantanamo?"

2. NBC: Impediment to Raising Taxes a 'Problem' for California
A night after ABC's Laura Marquez blamed California's budget deficit on the citizenry's "unwillingness to raise taxes" and a law "mandating an almost unachievable two-thirds vote by the legislature to raise taxes," on Wednesday's NBC Nightly News George Lewis similarly ignored soaring state spending as he focused on victims of upcoming budget cuts and asserted: "Part of California's problem is that it takes a two-thirds vote in the state legislature to raise taxes."

3. Today Turns to Leftist and a Moderate for Advice on GOP Comeback
When NBC's Today show, on Wednesday, devoted an entire segment asking the question "How Should the GOP Battle Back?" who did they turn to, to offer strategic advice? Leftist Nation editor/publisher Katrina Vanden Heuvel and self-described "moderate" radio talk show host Michael Smerconish. Not surprisingly neither guest suggested the Republican Party should be consistent in expressing and acting on conservative principles as Vanden Heuvel railed: "America needs a modern, tolerant opposition party. This party isn't it. Especially with, you know, poor Michael Steele, you got Dick Cheney roaming the country on his 'I am not a torturer' tour, as if he's working this country like a defendant working a jury. Michael Steele has a lot of problems when you've got Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh out there." And for his part Smerconish offered: "The party exists for one reason, to win elections. And in order to win elections, it can't just be a conservative message. There's got to be something in there for a guy like me who's a moderate."

4. MSNBC's Brewer: GOP Thinks 'Americans Are a Bunch of Idiots'
MSNBC host Contessa Brewer derided Republicans for using the word socialist in reference to Barack Obama's economic policies on Wednesday, complaining, "Well, maybe they think Americans are a bunch of idiots." Speaking of an upcoming vote by the Republican National Committee over whether or not to label the current Democratic leadership as socialist-leaning, the MSNBC News Live Host worried: "Have we reverted to a bunch of junior high schoolers, 12-year-olds with the name calling?"

5. O'Donnell on MSNBC: Steele Speech Like a 'Bad Hallmark Card'
Reacting to a speech by Republican Party Chairman Michael Steele during Tuesday's 3:00 EDT hour on MSNBC, anchor Norah O'Donnell declared: "In case you missed it, we compiled the greatest and the best of Michael Steele. Some people said that a lot of the cliches he used in his speech you could string them together and it would make a bad Hallmark card."

Gibson: 'Why Not' Put in U.S. Prisons
'the Guys from Guantanamo?'

Gibson alluded, in setting up his question to George Stephanopoulos, to Jake Tapper's reference to how "several convicted terrorists are currently in U.S. 'super-max' facilities, including shoe bomber Richard Reid," and how Dianne Feinstein (one of the six Senators on Obama's side) argued "there is ample evidence that the United States can, and in fact does, hold dangerous convicts securely and without incident." But in being confused about the reasoning of the vast majority, Gibson overlooked how Tapper had already answered his question: "FBI Director Robert Mueller today said putting these detainees in U.S. prisons could be dangerous." Viewers then heard from Mueller: "There is a potential for radicalization in a number of ways, whether it be for gang activity, for terrorist groups, for other extremists."

Nonetheless, Gibson wondered on the May 20 World News: "What's the problem here? We have, as Jake mentioned and Senator Feinstein said on the Senate floor, we have terrorists in U.S. prisons, so why not the guys from Guantanamo?"

[This item, by the MRC's Brent Baker, was posted Wednesday night on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org [1] ]

Stephanopoulos answered with the obvious:

Well, Charlie, I think this is one of the ultimate NIMBY issues. You're right on that point. On the other hand, the Senators have not yet seen a plan and you've got the FBI Director out there saying he's not sure it's going to be safe, either. Senate sources I've talked to today and the administration believe there is a chance they're going to get the Senate to agree to have some detainees come into prisons later this year once the plan by the President is released, but there is no way they're going to approve release of prisoners in the United States.

Gibson then filled-in his naive viewers: "When you say it's a NIMBY problem, you mean not in my back yard. No member of Congress wants these guys transferred to prisons in their districts."

Maybe Gibson was just trying to prompt an explanation for the opposition, but I'd bet that resistance to having terrorists housed in domestic prisons was already pretty obvious to most.

NBC: Impediment to Raising Taxes a 'Problem'
for California

A night after ABC's Laura Marquez blamed California's budget deficit on the citizenry's "unwillingness to raise taxes" and a law "mandating an almost unachievable two-thirds vote by the legislature to raise taxes," on Wednesday's NBC Nightly News George Lewis similarly ignored soaring state spending as he focused on victims of upcoming budget cuts and asserted: "Part of California's problem is that it takes a two-thirds vote in the state legislature to raise taxes."

Though the ballot initiatives turned down by voters on Tuesday involved raising and/or extending an income tax surcharge, the sales tax and the tax on cars, Lewis euphemistically described them as "a series of ballot measures, backed by [Governor Arnold] Schwarzenegger, aimed at easing the deficit." Lewis concentrated on potential victims: "$5.3 billion would come out of education in the Governor's proposed budget, $2 billion from health programs and hundreds of millions from the state's prison system" while a college student, Lewis paraphrased, complained they "are in a bind as California hikes fees to make ends meet."

[This item, by the MRC's Brent Baker, was posted late Wednesday night on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org [2] ]

Like Marquez on Tuesday's World News, Lewis ignored how taxes and spending have spiraled upward in recent years. Though personal income tax collections "dropped 14% last year," a Tuesday Wall Street Journal article noted they "soared 70% from 2002 to 2007." And columnist George Will pointed out in a May 3 column that the state government has hardly been starving for money: "If, since 1990, state spending increases had been held to the inflation rate plus population growth, the state would have a $15 billion surplus instead of a $42 billion budget deficit." In addition, in Arnold "Schwarzenegger's less than six years as Governor, per capita government spending, adjusted for inflation, has increased nearly 20 percent." Will's column: www.washingtonpost.com [3]

For the May 20 CyberAlert item, "ABC Regrets California's 'Unwillingness to Raise Taxes,'" go to: www.mrc.org [4]

From the Wednesday, May 20 NBC Nightly News:

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Now to the American west we go and huge problems for the most populous state in the country. California is pretty much insolvent. $21 billion in the red with depressed tax revenue and bigger expenses because of this recession. Last night, voters said "no" to a plan to try to close this gap. Our own George Lewis has our report.

GEORGE LEWIS: 38 million Californians woke up this morning with their state $21 billion in the red. A big defeat for Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, in Washington trying to nail down stimulus money from the Obama administration. Voters yesterday turned down a series of ballot measures, backed by Schwarzenegger, aimed at easing the deficit.
GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER: So there was a clear "no" on all of those issues and so now we have to recognize that and move forward and make all of the changes through cuts.
LEWIS: $5.3 billion would come out of education in the Governor's proposed budget, $2 billion from health programs and hundreds of millions from the state's prison system. To further plug the holes in the budget, the state may have to sell off a number of landmark properties including this one, the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Also, the San Quentin state prison, the Del Mar fair grounds near San Diego and the Cow Place arena south of San Francisco. Part of California's problem is that it takes a two-thirds vote in the state legislature to raise taxes, while voters oppose any cuts in services.
BRUCE CAIN, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: Now, with this cataclysmic economic decline we just have a combination that is just unimaginably bad.
LEWIS: The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimates in 2010, 47 states will fae deficits totaling $145 billion. Curtis Schlaufman, student body president at Cal State University-Fullerton says students are in a bind as California hikes fees to make ends meet.
CURTIS SCHLAUFMAN: Right I have a part-time job, so I might have to find another part-time job just to be able to afford to pay for my schooling and my books.
LEWIS: This as the fiscal crisis in California and elsewhere deepens. George Lewis, NBC News, Los Angeles.

Today Turns to Leftist and a Moderate
for Advice on GOP Comeback

When NBC's Today show, on Wednesday, devoted an entire segment asking the question "How Should the GOP Battle Back?" who did they turn to, to offer strategic advice? Leftist Nation editor/publisher Katrina Vanden Heuvel and self-described "moderate" radio talk show host Michael Smerconish. Not surprisingly neither guest suggested the Republican Party should be consistent in expressing and acting on conservative principles as Vanden Heuvel railed: "America needs a modern, tolerant opposition party. This party isn't it. Especially with, you know, poor Michael Steele, you got Dick Cheney roaming the country on his 'I am not a torturer' tour, as if he's working this country like a defendant working a jury. Michael Steele has a lot of problems when you've got Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh out there." And for his part Smerconish offered: "The party exists for one reason, to win elections. And in order to win elections, it can't just be a conservative message. There's got to be something in there for a guy like me who's a moderate."

[This item, by the MRC's Geoffrey Dickens, was posted Wednesday morning on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org [5] ]

The following Savannah Guthrie set-up piece and ensuing Lauer interview with Vanden Heuvel and Smerconish were aired on the May 20 Today show:

MATT LAUER: Now to Washington and the GOP's attempt to turn the page on that sound defeat suffered in last November's general election. NBC's Savannah Guthrie is at the White House with details on a new challenged being issued to Republicans. Savannah, good morning to you.

[On screen headline: "Steele To Obama, 'The Honeymoon Is Over.'"]

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Good morning, Matt. The head of the Republican Party says it's time to stop fearing the President's popularity and take him on.
MICHAEL STEELE: Third turning point is this, the Republican comeback has begun.
GUTHRIE: In a room full of state party chairmen, the head of the Republican National Committee says it's time for the GOP to stop agonizing over the past.
STEELE: The era of apologizing for Republican mistakes of the past is now officially over. It is done.
GUTHRIE: Chairman Michael Steele said Republicans need to start confronting the President despite his popularity.
STEELE: We're going to take the President head-on. The honeymoon is over. He's taking us in the wrong direction and bankrupting our country. That I do not like.
GUTHRIE: Republicans have been trying to regroup after November's losses of the White House and in Congress. And a new Gallup poll shows Republican affiliation declining in nearly every demographic group.
JOHN MERCURIO, THE HOTLINE: The Republican Party obviously is bigger than Michael Steele. And what it needs right now I think is a new direction and a new launch of some sort. And I think that's what this speech was intended to do.
GUTHRIE: Steele is trying to save not just the party, but salvage his own reputation after a series of well publicized stumbles. Criticizing Rush Limbaugh, then apologizing. And suggesting the GOP needs a hip-hop makeover, something the President mocked at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
BARACK OBAMA: Michael Steele is in the house tonight. Or as he would say, "In the heezy." What's up?!
GUTHRIE: Well later today Republicans are set to vote on a resolution to ask Democrats to rename their party the "Democrat Socialist Party." This is something that Steele opposes. Democrats say, by the way, Steele's speech was petty and had no new ideas, Matt.

LAUER: Alright Savannah Guthrie at the White House, Savannah, thank you very much. Michael Smerconish is a radio talk show host, he's also the author of Morning Drive: Things I Wish I Knew Before I Started Talking. He's with us along with Katrina Vanden Heuvel who is the publisher and editor of The Nation. Good morning to both of you. Michael let me start with you.

[On screen headline: "Republican Rebound, How Should The GOP Battle Back?"]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH: Good morning.
LAUER: This speech by Michael Steele. He, he got off to a rocky start, we all know that. Now he's predicting a comeback for the party. Says the time for navel-gazing is over. It's time to go on the attack against this president. Does this speech put the Republicans and Michael Steele back on the right course?
SMERCONISH: No, it doesn't Matt. I both watched it and read the transcript this morning. There was no outreach to grow the 21 percent. This, to me, was chest-thumping. It was reinforcement, it was red meat for the troops, those who are already in the Republican tent. But that tent's not large enough. I mean at the very end of the speech when he talked about the conservative roots of the party, the party doesn't exist to be an ideological vehicle. The party exists for one reason, to win elections. And in order to win elections, it can't just be a conservative message. There's got to be something in there for a guy like me who's a moderate.
LAUER: Yeah Katrina, when Democrats listen to that speech do they applaud? Do they love what they heard?
VANDEN HEUVEL: I mean this is a party in a death spiral. I mean it's a party on the verge of self-extinction if they don't open up and become a more tolerant, modern, diverse party. At the moment every demographic group is flipping away from the Republicans except for weekly churchgoers. Got nothing against them but that's not gonna make a party. You've got the governors of this country who are more open, more connected to people. One of the leading governors is just going off to China to be Obama's ambassador. Party's in trouble. America needs a modern, tolerant opposition party. This party isn't it. Especially with, you know, poor Michael Steele, you got Dick Cheney roaming the country on his "I am not a torturer" tour, as if he's working this country like a defendant working a jury. Michael Steele has a lot of problems when you've got Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh out there.
LAUER: You know Michael, let me go back to you, Michael Steele said he wants to go on the attack against the President despite his popularity but he wants to do it with class. Here's what he said, quote "We're gonna take this President on with dignity. This will be a very sharp and marked contrast to the shabby and classless way that the Democrats and the far left spoke of President Bush." Is the idea here that the Republicans have to take on the policies without taking on the personality?
SMERCONISH: Well, and, and I think that's true Matt. And there's a practical side to this, which is that the President's numbers remain off the chart. So you can't take him on, on a personal level and expect to gain politically from it. But, today, as you made reference to what the RNC is scheduled to do, should the now say the Democrats need to rebrand themselves as the Socialist party? That's more of taking them down the wrong path. That's exactly what they should not do. That's that Internet war-
LAUER: Well Michael Steele again is, he's opposed to that.
SMERCONISH: Yeah, and he's correct in being opposed to it. But we're gonna find out today if he's in control of his own operation, because it may pass over his objection-
LAUER: Right.
SMERCONISH: And that would be the wrong thing for the party to do.
LAUER: Let me move on to another subject here, Katrina. The President got some push-back in the Senate yesterday from members of his own party. Democrats who said they want to take the $80 million set aside in the war spending bill out that is set aside for closing down Guantanamo Bay, the, the detention center there. Now that, how big a problem is that for the President?
VANDEN HEUVEL: It's unclear. I mean I think the major problem, Matt, is President Obama made the vow, good vow to close Guantanamo which is a symbol of the lawlessness of the Bush-Cheney administration. You know Guantanamo makes us less secure. It is a symbol of torture in the world. It recruits terrorists instead of shutting them down. I think Obama will come back with a plan and the Democrats I think will find a way. And it's not just Democrats. I mean this is about America. It's about accountability. It is about living with our values and principles.
LAUER: I didn't go far enough in explaining it. They, they want to take that money out until President Obama
VANDEN HEUVEL: Comes with a plan.
LAUER: -comes with a concrete plan as to what to do with the 240 detainees there. So Michael let me turn to you. If, does this problem though, if he gets push-back from Democrats and Republicans on this, might he have to change his stance a little bit on Guantanamo and how big a problem would that be?
SMERCONISH: Well, he might. And, and I think that it would be the third time. It would be, you know, first of all the tribunals are now going to move forward. The photographs are not going to be released, or they'll be released only over the objection of the White House. And you know somewhere there's a guy down in Texas named George W. Bush who's probably smiling at all of this because you can't help but see some of it as a form of vindication for the way in which he went about the war on terror.
VANDEN HEUVEL: There is no vindication. I think when America treats torture like a partisan football it is a measure of a civilization in trouble. And we need to abide by our laws. We can be secure with the principles which have defined and made this country great. So I think President Obama needs to be pushed and citizens need to push their representatives -- Democrats, Republicans -- to abide by the law and not continue with the lawlessness of the Bush-Cheney regime.
LAUER: I'm gonna make that the last word on this one. Michael thanks, Katrina thank you.
VANDEN HEUVEL: Thank you.
LAUER: Appreciate it from both of you.

MSNBC's Brewer: GOP Thinks 'Americans
Are a Bunch of Idiots'

MSNBC host Contessa Brewer derided Republicans for using the word socialist in reference to Barack Obama's economic policies on Wednesday, complaining, "Well, maybe they think Americans are a bunch of idiots." Speaking of an upcoming vote by the Republican National Committee over whether or not to label the current Democratic leadership as socialist-leaning, the MSNBC News Live Host worried: "Have we reverted to a bunch of junior high schoolers, 12-year-olds with the name calling?"

Of course, Brewer is on the same network that repeatedly, and gleefully, used the juvenile "teabag" humor to describe Republican protests over taxes. So, this argument is somewhat hollow. Washington Post political reporter Perry Bacon talked to the host and tried to explain the GOP's anger towards the massive spending that has been going on in Washington. After Brewer played a clip of RNC Chairman Michael Steele on Tuesday slamming Democrats, such as "Barney Frank, who nobody understands," the journalist could barely contain herself. She fretted, "Class and dignity. Was that it?"

[This item, by the MRC's Scott Whitlock, was posted Wednesday afternoon on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org [6] ]

The MSNBC host proceeded to cite fresh polling data showing that the number of self-identified Republicans has dropped five percent since 2001. She lectured, "...You have these staunch conservative talkers, people like Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh, who insist that if you don't toe the party line, and the one that they see as being on the far right, then you should just leave the party all together."

Brewer never explained how massive new spending, partial nationalization of businesses and taking over control of the auto industry isn't at least moving in the direction of socialism. Nor did she tell her viewers how it was undignified of Michael Steele, the chairman of a partisan political organization, to attack the policies and leaders of the Democratic Party.

A transcript of the May 20 segment, which aired at 10:05am EDT, follows:

CONTESSA BREWER: The full Republican National Committee will vote this afternoon on a revised resolution that would officially label the Democratic Party as a bunch of socialists, the wording of the resolution has sparked a heated debate among conservatives, so much that RNC leaders changed it from Democratic/socialist Party to say instead that Democrats are taking the country in the direction of socialism. The push to re-brand was in full force last night on Fox News.
[Montage of FNC anchors using the word socialist.]
BREWER [Laughs]: Perry Bacon is national political reporter for the Washington Post. Have we reverted to a bunch of junior high schoolers, 12-year-olds with the name calling?
PERRY BACON (Washington Post): Uh, I think the Republicans have a genuine concern. I think Michael Steele talked about Obama is spending too much money and they're worried about tax increases, as well. I don't- I think that even Steele argues using the term socialist is not particularly useful. But, I think there's a debate they're trying to push about the spending and debt levels the government has right now.
BREWER: Well, maybe they think Americans are a bunch of idiots. But, you know, Michael Steele was preaching to these RNC leaders. He says it's time for a new era of class and dignity. Let me play it.
MICHAEL STEELE: We've seen strategists writing memos and doing briefings, urging the Republicans avoid confronting the President, steer clear of any frontal assaults on his administration. They suggest that instead, we should go after Nancy Pelosi, who nobody likes, or Harry Reid, who nobody knows. Or this Tim Geithner fellow, who nobody believes, or maybe even Barney Frank, who nobody understands.
BREWER: Class and dignity. Was that it?
BACON: His point was that the Republicans should focus more on attacking Obama and not use proxies like Geithner or Barney Frank. I think he made a pretty substantive political argument about different policy views he has. He feels like Obama has it that the Republicans would agree with [sic]. It was more of a policy point, but I think the socialist thing is something they're trying to get away from a bit.
BREWER: You know it's interesting, because you have this Gallup poll that shows the Republican Party identification, people who will them that yes, I'm a Republican. Look how dramatically that's dropped off. 44 percent in 2001 to 39 percent today. And the thing is is that you have these staunch conservative talkers, people like Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh, who insist that if you don't toe the party line, and the one that they see as being on the far right, then you should just leave the party all together. Is that the way they're going to turn around their failures and find success?
BACON: I thought the part of Steele's speech that was so interesting was that he said the Republican comeback has begun. The renaissance has begun, was the term he used. And all the polling evidence which you just showed, some of it there, suggests that's not true at least right now. Republicans at their lowest moment historically in more than a decade. So, it's interesting he's already saying the comeback has happened, when it looks like it, for now, has not happened.
BREWER: Republican fund-raiser, Perry, Fred Malek ranks Mitt Romney as the GOP's number one contender in 2012. Who else do you think now, in terms of a party thinking how can we recapture the White House, who are they going to look for?
BACON: I think right now Romney has emerged as someone who a lot of conservatives feel like is a consensus. He has some of the same economic views they have, small government kind of views and also some of the views on social issues they agree with. I suspect you will also see Mike Huckabee, the governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford is making some sounds about potential runs. So, I think there are other people out there. We may not know who the 2012 nominee is right now but Romney is definitely putting himself in position for that.

O'Donnell on MSNBC: Steele Speech Like
a 'Bad Hallmark Card'

Reacting to a speech by Republican Party Chairman Michael Steele during Tuesday's 3:00 EDT hour on MSNBC, anchor Norah O'Donnell declared: "In case you missed it, we compiled the greatest and the best of Michael Steele. Some people said that a lot of the cliches he used in his speech you could string them together and it would make a bad Hallmark card."

An edited clip of Steele's speech was played, highlighting his calls for Republicans to turn the corner. A laughing O'Donnell turned to Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons and Republican strategist Phil Musser to discuss the future of the GOP: "Alright, Phil, did you get the point that the honeymoon is over, the navel-gazing is done? There was a lot of this emphasis on turning the page, which is all well and good, but there was no prescription for change in what the Republican Party's going to do. Isn't that a problem?" Musser shot back: "Well, I think Michael Steele is making an important point that you can only be on defense for so long, and with all due respect to your setup, which keeps us on defense, you know, that I think that the Republican Party has acknowledged their sin, certainly paid the measure of price for it and are now in the process of moving forward with proactive ideas."

[This item, by the MRC's Kyle Drennen, was posted Wednesday afternoon on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org [7] ]

Not satisfied with mocking Steele, O'Donnell next decided to accuse him of going after President Obama's children: "Well, let me ask, is moving forward -- does moving forward, including essentially using the President's own children, Malia and Sasha, as part of a political argument? I mean, listen to what he said today." A clip was played of Steele criticizing Obama for revoking funding for the Washington D.C. school voucher program: "While the President sends his kids to a private school, he is at the very same time taking away opportunity scholarships from poor Hispanic and African-American kids right here in our nation's capital."

Rather than debate the issue of whether the President was being hypocritical by sending his children to private school while denying other D.C. parents the same choice, O'Donnell turned to Simmons and asked: "Jamal, I mean, shouldn't the President's kids be off limits? Why do you need to use his kids in order to make the argument about charter schools?" Simmons replied: "They absolutely should be off limits. Except for making fun of Jenna Bush sticking her tongue out back in the Bush years, Democrats pretty much left President Bush's daughters alone."

Later, O'Donnell opened up yet another line of attack against Steele, citing a Washington Times article that reported that Steele was paying RNC staffers substantially more than their predecessors: "...on a day that clearly the Chairman is trying to turn the page and he's saying 'everybody, let's start fresh,' I think what he's trying to do. There's a story in the Washington Times...It says this, quote, 'Steele brought along long-time,' this is about his staff and questions about salaries, 'Steele brought along long-time personal assistant Belinda Cook and gave her a salary nearly three times what her predecessor made."

O'Donnell then asked Musser: "Doesn't that kind of -- I mean he criticized the President for profligate spending and it looks like he's got huge salaries at the RNC." Musser pointed out the absurdity of the comparison: "Look, you can't compare the spending that's going on in the Obama administration to a couple of staff salaries that are disclosed, you know, publically at the RNC."

Read the Washington Times article here: washingtontimes.com [8]

Here is the full transcript of the May 19 segment:

3:34PM SEGMENT:
NORAH O'DONNELL: And RNC Chairman Michael Steele says the nation needs the Republican Party now more than ever. But without a clear leader, has the Grand Old Party really turned a page, as Michael Steele suggests? Well, let's bring in Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons and Phil Musser, Republican strategist and former executive director of the Republican Governors Association. Alright, welcome to both of you.
PHIL MUSSER: Hi, Norah.
O'DONNELL: In case you missed it, we compiled the greatest and the best of Michael Steele. Some people said that a lot of the cliches he used in his speech you could string them together and it would make a bad Hallmark card. Listen.
MICHAEL STEELE: We're going to take the President head-on. The honeymoon is over... I have news for them. We are not going to be silent. We're going to speak up and we're going to show that we have the courage of our convictions... We are declaring an end to the era of Republicans looking backwards... the era of Republican navel-gazing, done... Introspection, ladies and gentlemen, is now over. The corner has been turned... You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong... We are going to speak truth to power.
O'DONNELL [LAUGHING]: Alright, Phil, did you get the point that the honeymoon is over, the navel-gazing is done? There was a lot of this emphasis on turning the page, which is all well and good, but there was no prescription for change in what the Republican Party's going to do. Isn't that a problem?
PHIL MUSSER: Well, I think Michael Steele is making an important point that you can only be on defense for so long, and with all due respect to your setup, which keeps us on defense, you know, that I think that the Republican Party has acknowledged their sin, certainly paid the measure of price for it and are now in the process of moving forward with proactive ideas. And Michael Steele's job is to help get that messaging environment more focused and move that debate forward, and that's what he's trying to do today. And it was received pretty well by the RNC members, it may not be on TV-
O'DONNELL: Well, let me ask, is moving forward -- does moving forward, including essentially using the President's own children, Malia and Sasha, as part of a political argument? I mean, listen to what he said today.
STEELE: While the President sends his kids to a private school, he is at the very same time taking away opportunity scholarships from poor Hispanic and African-American kids right here in our nation's capital.
O'DONNELL: Jamal, I mean, shouldn't the President's kids be off limits? Why do you need to use his kids in order to make the argument about charter schools?
JAMAL SIMMONS: They absolutely should be off limits. Except for making fun of Jenna Bush sticking her tongue out back in the Bush years, Democrats pretty much left President Bush's daughters alone. The real problem here, Phil, is you can't beat something with nothing, and right now the Republicans aren't offering the country anything positive about where they want to take the country and what they want to do. Even when you take a look at the upcoming Supreme Court fight, what you have are Republican Senators, and the Republican Party, already organizing against prospective Democratic candidates to oppose them. But we don't even know who the name is yet, they're already ready to say no. You've got to have something positive to offer.
MUSSER: Yeah, I'm not sure that's totally true. I think that the -- I think the rebirth of the Republican Party is starting to happen in the states. I mean, take what Tim Pawlenty's doing today in Minnesota, okay. He vetoed about $2 billion in new DFL proposed taxes last week and he sent the DFL legislature home, essentially, and he's going to balance the budget and constitutionally meet his responsibilities in Minnesota. It's a model for leadership that Republicans nationwide need to emulate. And also look at Mitch Daniels in Indiana -- what I'm saying is-
SIMMONS: Your model for leadership was a veto-
MUSSER: No, my-
SIMMONS: -not a proposal. Where's the policy about how to move the country forward, get us out of the ditch that George Bush put us in?
MUSSER: Well look, I mean, the bottom line is the Democrats are in power a part of what he's saying here is that a two-party -- Michael Steele is saying -- is that a two-party system is healthy, Jamal, because we need to be an organized loyal opposition. You guys are the running the show here. This is now your turn, okay. George Bush is gone. You cannot run against him anymore-
SIMMONS: Americans want you guys to offer solutions.
MUSSER: And so what -- and so what -- what Michael Steele is saying is it's time to take that playbook and look forward and be -- and be loyal and respectful in that opposition
O'DONNELL: Let me ask you on a day that clearly the Chairman is trying to turn the page and he's saying 'everybody, let's start fresh,' I think what he's trying to do. There's a story in the Washington Times, this is not the New York Times, this is the Washington Post [Times]. And let me read from it, It says this, quote, 'Steele brought along long-time,' this is about his staff and questions about salaries, 'Steele brought along long-time personal assistant Belinda Cook and gave her a salary nearly three times what her predecessor made. Cook's son also landed a job at the RNC. Steele hired another family friend, Angela Sailor, to be the Party's outreach director to a salary of $180,000, more than double her predecessor's compensation.' Phil, I had Senator Inhofe on here to talk about -- about not closing down Gitmo, but then I asked him about this story. He said he hadn't seen, he said 'if that's true I'm going to look it up. That's a real problem and we're going to end it.' Doesn't that kind of -- I mean he criticized the President for profligate spending and it looks like he's got huge salaries at the RNC.
MUSSER: Look, you can't compare the spending that's going on in the Obama administration to a couple of staff salaries that are disclosed, you know, publically at the RNC. I have no idea about the specifics of this matter. I'll talk about Angela Sailor, someone that I know and have a lot of respect for, she's got a huge portfolio that centrally focused at addressing one of the principle challenges the Republican Party faces, how do we-
O'DONNELL: $180,000?
MUSSER: Worth every penny, okay. How about reaching out to the Hispanic community, reaching out more -- with a more cohesive message -- to the African-American community. Angela is spear-heading one of the kind of central efforts of coalitions outreach that is a hallmark of Michael Steele's campaign. You pay for good talent.
SIMMONS: Look, Angela Sailor's a wonderful woman. I've known her for many years. But let me just tell you, I worked at the Democratic National Committee. If I was getting $180,000 I would have probably never left.
[LAUGHTER]
MUSSER: I made $21,000 when I worked at the RNC-
O'DONNELL: Exactly.
MUSSER: Look, I'm going to defend -- I'm going to defend-
O'DONNELL: Well, let me just-
SIMMONS: But let's get to one more issue, Newt Gingrich is back. Newt Gingrich joins up with this new group today and we find out the faces of the Republican Party right now are Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich. Michael Steele is not the face of the party.
O'DONNELL: Let me just show you quickly, let me just show you something, can we get this up there, the Gallup poll that shows the Republican support shrank among nearly all major subgroups in the last ten years. College graduates, down 10%. Down 9% among 18 to 29-year-olds, Midwest voters, moderate Republicans, and those earning between $30 and $75,000 a year. Phil, are you concerned about Republican shrinkage?
MUSSER: Yes, I am concerned about Republican shrinkage. I think any Republican with a right mind on their head has to be concerned about it, but also needs to understand the historical tides in this country and understands that we're fundamentally a center, center right country, and over time I believe that we are going to be able to kind of come back against that grain as Obama overreaches to the left and fundamentally the balance will shift. But, you know, are there-
SIMMONS: So you're betting on failure.
MUSSER: Are there -- are there-
SIMMONS: You're betting on failure.
MUSSER: I'm not betting -- I'm betting that the big government solution, which is essentially mortgaging the future of our country by borrowing and spending and taxing, you know, as far as the eye can see-
SIMMONS: Give us something to be for, okay.
MUSSER: -it's going to be an overreach.
SIMMONS: Give us something -- if you give Americans something to be for-
MUSSER: But I-
O'DONNELL: Guys, I've got to wrap this up. It was a great discussion guys, but I got to wrap it. Jamal Simmons and Phil Musser, great discussion.
MUSSER: I'll be for something next time, how about that Jamal?
SIMMONS: Okay.
MUSSER: Alright, man.
O'DONNELL: Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

-- Brent Baker